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Post by looter on Aug 14, 2011 21:55:30 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't hesitate to have their resources developed. They will grant permits to drill and do. obamunist won't. Simple as that. Ummmm.... You do realize that the ave daily rate of Mexican oil production is declining 20% per year don't you? Mexico isn't even drilling aggressively to fight their decline. They can't. They sell their oil to themselves on the cheap. Drilling rigs are finite. A country like Mexico can't bid against the USA for them, because they give their oil away. The USA has more drilling rigs operating today than every other country in the world combined. That is because we tap our resources harder and faster than anyone. Always have. Now its biting us in the ass.
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mfs
Hired Hand
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Post by mfs on Aug 14, 2011 22:27:44 GMT -5
Thirsty, despite your political philosophy I think you one of the most intelligent to economic discourse. I have an an uncle who had been vp with Union Oil of California for overseas exploration. He now teaches at the Fuqua School MBA program at Duke University. He does agree with you in regards to frugality of especially Germany of fuel consumption. We cannot continue to consume at levels of today. We are not close to an alternative. It will be demanded by economics and not politics. America is stupid in thinking they can command economic performance. We have been lucky as Looter said in W Texas oil fields in WWII. We did win it on basis of resources and American resolve for production. Thirsty, I appreciate your heritage and have probably much more than you. We are still Americans and appreciate what we can do to improve the condition of this country.
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Post by glowplug on Aug 14, 2011 22:29:47 GMT -5
We're not drilling off our West Coast shore. Heck, there is natural oil seep taking place off CA ending up in the Pacific. We're not drilling 45 miles south of Key West but Cuba is partnering up to drill there. We're not drilling a mere 2,000 acres of the 19+ million acre ANWR.
We're not using canola, camelia, sunflower, soybean, and other oilseed production to make B2 diesel to stretch out our diesel supplies (and have the added lubrication to make our diesels last longer). There's 30% more energy in diesel than in gasoline, that's where we should transistion our national fleet to. Screw the California Air Resource Board.
That's what's biting us in the ass......Glowplug
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Post by thirsty on Aug 14, 2011 22:30:44 GMT -5
Mexico doesn't hesitate to have their resources developed. They will grant permits to drill and do. obamunist won't. Simple as that. Ummmm.... You do realize that the ave daily rate of Mexican oil production is declining 20% per year don't you? Mexico isn't even drilling aggressively to fight their decline. They can't. They sell their oil to themselves on the cheap. Drilling rigs are finite. A country like Mexico can't bid against the USA for them, because they give their oil away. The USA has more drilling rigs operating today than every other country in the world combined. That is because we tap our resources harder and faster than anyone. Always have. Now its biting us in the ass. Looter you ignorant slut, now you're confusing buttplug with all that logic stuff. Next thing your gonna break out the subtraction and addition and his cheesehead will explode.
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Post by thirsty on Aug 14, 2011 22:48:33 GMT -5
Thirsty, despite your political philosophy I think you one of the most intelligent to economic discourse. I have an an uncle who had been vp with Union Oil of California for overseas exploration. He now teaches at the Fuqua School MBA program at Duke University. He does agree with you in regards to frugality of especially Germany of fuel consumption. We cannot continue to consume at levels of today. We are not close to an alternative. It will be demanded by economics and not politics. America is stupid in thinking they can command economic performance. We have been lucky as Looter said in W Texas oil fields in WWII. We did win it on basis of resources and American resolve for production. Thirsty, I appreciate your heritage and have probably much more than you. We are still Americans and appreciate what we can do to improve the condition of this country. I'm an anarcho-capitalist, my political philosphies are closer to what most in the Austrian school of economics would be comfortable espousing, Hans-Hermann Hoppe comes to mind. With that said I also am pragmatic enough to realize most people are herd like and obsessed with socially trendy political-economic beliefs which leads me to discuss points from a position of reality, understanding everybody's perspective and trying to remain free of hypocrisy and extreme (im)morality. Often times I take a contra position in order to argue a point I wish to clarify in greater deal to myself, bringing it into conciousness so to speak. I agree that America isn't prepared for what is at hand, this is something both the Japs and the Germans have been discussing and preparing for the last two decades, it is these two advanced economies out of the post modern industrialized states that have lived closest to the malthusian trap than all other major powers in the western hemisphere-period. Smaller cars, more fuel efficiency, a reliance on electric powered trains, a re-vamp of waterways are all reasons why Germany has reduced fuel consumption decade over decade while still growing their economy. The same effort that allowed them to fight a multi-front war over six years long with a minimum of resources is why I have re-focused on that time period to begin with!!! I am uninterested in copying the political philosophies of the Third Reich, but their economic policies have been discussed by anarchist economists who have the balls to get into such, some like Prepata have been censored by their universities for discussing realities higher powers wish not to see in the limelight. Now back to bashing buttplug....
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Post by glowplug on Aug 14, 2011 22:58:41 GMT -5
Ah yes, when the inferiority complexed Canuck lacks any valid points, he resorts to name calling.
Electric trains are but a obsolete fantasy here. Germany and Switzerland are blessed with hydropower due to snow melt in their mountain regions. France generations over 85% of their electricity using nuclear. And the EU is densely populated unlike USA so passenger train is impractical over our vast stretches of sparsely populated geography. The so-called "high speed" rail ain't high speed if it keeps stopping at every country cross roads. Passenger trains are a joke for 95% of our geography.
Now, give me a good three cylinder diesel Ford Escape 4X4 getting 50 mpg and we're talking. Return to making the F250, F350 Ford pickups with the 7.3 Navistar Diesel like I have getting 20 mpg. and we're talking. Pizz on the California Air Resource Board.
Are you kissing your Queen's ring or butt like a good widdle royal subject?
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mfs
Hired Hand
Posts: 163
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Post by mfs on Aug 14, 2011 23:12:24 GMT -5
Thirsty in regards to your Malthusian politics all in my family fled to America. Some were sent as indentured servants and some left for continued servitude. I always thought we created our destiny with opportunity and the prospect of freedom. You are similar to talking to daughter about global warming. We as custodians of God's gifts are always rewarded the province to produce. The deprived areas do not provide opportunity.
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Post by thirsty on Aug 14, 2011 23:17:55 GMT -5
The US doesn't have the same?
You got more coal/natural gas + nukes nothing is stopping you from generating electricity.
Your coastal regions holding most of your populations are similiar in pop. density to europe. Nobody gives a frick about Wisconsin.
You're gonna need 80-100 mpg to get off imported oil.
Besides sucking Saudi dick for oil, rimjobbing Wall Street bankers and felching Israel is there sonebody you don't prostitute your country to???
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Post by glowplug on Aug 14, 2011 23:41:43 GMT -5
Well for you non-agwebbies, this is pretty much how discussion goes with this inferiority complexed Canuck. He's rude, crude, lewd...that's our Thirsty. And deep inside, feeling inferior in his inferior country, the north shadow of the great USA.
No thirsty, we don't have the vast hydropower that some parts of the EU does. And the EU doesn't have the vast wide open stretches from the Mississippi River to the West Coast. Now there's some rivers we could still harness for hydro but as I've regularly posted the obstacle is the damn envirowackos. Same group blocks coal, nuclear, thorium.
Now, there ain't gonna be no 80 mpg. putting us on freekin' mopeds like some Turd World nation. And Smart Cars are for dumb folks killed in those eggshells during traffic accidents. There's plenty of energy we can tap into once we get the envirowackos out of the way.
Now I did see oweBOWma, the Pretender In Chief bow to the Saudi price photo but apparently missed the oral sex photo. Wouldn't surprise me that oweBOWma wouldn't go there, ya know. Please post that photo, cause Tommyex and John will need to see it.
Glowplug
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Post by glowplug on Aug 15, 2011 0:06:38 GMT -5
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4108559,00.html thirsty might think the Tooth Fairy is keeping Iran from going fully operational nuclear. It's the Mossad. Oh wait, thirsty thinks Iran should have nukes and can be trusted with them......
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Post by looter on Aug 15, 2011 6:47:50 GMT -5
Well for you non-agwebbies, this is pretty much how discussion goes with this inferiority complexed Canuck. He's rude, crude, lewd...that's our Thirsty. And deep inside, feeling inferior in his inferior country, the north shadow of the great USA. No thirsty, we don't have the vast hydropower that some parts of the EU does. And the EU doesn't have the vast wide open stretches from the Mississippi River to the West Coast. Now there's some rivers we could still harness for hydro but as I've regularly posted the obstacle is the damn envirowackos. Same group blocks coal, nuclear, thorium. Now, there ain't gonna be no 80 mpg. putting us on freekin' mopeds like some Turd World nation. And Smart Cars are for dumb folks killed in those eggshells during traffic accidents. There's plenty of energy we can tap into once we get the envirowackos out of the way. Now I did see oweBOWma, the Pretender In Chief bow to the Saudi price photo but apparently missed the oral sex photo. Wouldn't surprise me that oweBOWma wouldn't go there, ya know. Please post that photo, cause Tommyex and John will need to see it. Glowplug Let's take the optimists view that a USA that maintains the drilling subsidies while opening 100% of all land for drilling would increase oil production by 2 mbpd. First of all, 2 mbpd is an awfully lot of of oil. It's two Texas's. We import 9 mbpd, so then we would only need to import 7 mbpd. Sounds kinda like cutting the deficit a trillion bucks over the next decade. Now what would adding 2 mbpd to the 86 mbpd global supply do to prices? Well, the marginal producers of that 86 mbpd need sky high prices, so it really wouldn't add to total production. It would merely displace the high cost producer. Keep in mind much of the current oil production in the USA requires high prices cuz its hard to get. How do you explain the fact the USA has more drilling rigs than all other countries combined?
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Post by Grainbelt on Aug 15, 2011 7:11:53 GMT -5
For those of you that weren't on Agweb, GP is correct, this is the kind of stuff that went on over on Agweb all the time. Plug would post some nonsensical big government solution to a problem, and everyone would have to endlessly explain to him how silly his idea was. If GP's post would remain on this level we will be lucky. At least here he is forced to occasionally come up with an original idea Unlike his endless streams of cut and pastes of someone elses ideas.
If Looter is correct about ever contracting supplies (and I have no reason to believe he isn't) why on earth would you be against sending Middle Eastern and S American nations ever decreasing dollars in exchange for their oil, while keeping your own supplies safely tucked away for future use? Thirsy is also dead on. Getting the most efficient use out of each unit of energy is the most important thing humans will do from here on out. Why would someone be in favor of our government subsidizing citizens use of finite resources at below market prices? That is just plain stupid! If anything needs done it is just the opposite. We need to tax the hell out of finite resource use.
Looter, do you still disagree with the premise Thirsty made a couple post up, and I have been making for years, that real global GDP can grow in a time of reducing crude production?
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Post by glowplug on Aug 15, 2011 7:45:31 GMT -5
Grainbelt, I'm an "all of the above" energy solution person.
You say no problem with exporting our dollars (putting ourselves deeper in debt than we can ever repay) for our energy needs. Just how in heck do you believe we can continue our massive deficit practices, continue to borrow even more money from the likes of the Red Chinese? And GB, what makes you think the US dollar will be the currency of world trade, more likely it will be the Yuan.
We have the capabilities of growing ethanol and biodiesel to stretch out our petroleum. We can build added electric generation capacity, switch some metro transportation to compressed air cars. But battery cars are simply a wasted investment. Batteries are too heavy and require rare metals to construct. Spend our money on what is proven to work and what people will use.
Mass transit has proven to need taxpayer subsidies and consumers don't like it. And it is really impractical in low population density areas. GB's idea of taxing the heck out of what we need to produce goods and services is unsound economics. Giving the govt. more of our money is giving a teenager booze and car keys. (Shrink govt. to meet the basics and our economy will grow.) Glowplug
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Post by Grainbelt on Aug 15, 2011 8:16:27 GMT -5
GP, the following is a response to your post, sorry if it seems a little rambling.
First, don't put words in my mouth, There is nothing in my post about increasing public debt. Buying crude in world markets is an asset exchange. The transaction is done with a currency. Gov't spending currently takes debt to pay for it. Private asset purchases(like buying crude oil) takes two parties, willing to exchange one asset for another, no debt is added to the treasury in this process. If a nation is unable to produce an asset of value they will simply be unable to purchase any asset, crude oil amongst them. The foreign nationally run oil companies for some insane reason have chosen to invest a portion of this asset exchange in US treaury products.
Who really gives a flip if the US dollar is the "currency of world trade"? As long the dollar can be exchanged for peso's, yuan, yen, Euro's, bahts, etc, etc, who really cares. I don't think you understand what a currency represents. Any freely convertable currency can work for the purposes of foreign trade. If Venezuela wants to sell their oil to Marathon in the form of Malaysian ringit, you trade dollars for ringit at the current exchange rate and then exchange them for the given quantity of crude. Takes no governmental trade negotiator to get this done either.
I am in favor of any energy source that provides for the most efficient use of assets and labor, don't care whether it is Brazilian crude or Illinois corn, it really doesn't matter. Electrical generation and transmission is currently a very inefficient use of resources. Fortunes will be made increasing the efficiency of this process.
I am not in favor of taxing resource consumption but it is a far better alternative than your example of Mexican style subsidization. Private transportation using internal combustion engines also requires taxpayer subsidies. Very little difference there. As real energy prices continue to rise, the greater efficiencies of mass (not necessarily public) transit will make them essential.
You either don't understand or don't read the point that many have made. Low population density area's are a rounding error in the grand scheme of enery consumption(read rural Wisconsin). You will continue to use personal internal combustion vehicles for quite some time in rural Wisconsin. In the grand scheme, you don't count. The area's that matter are where the majority of the population lives, that is where the focus of energy consumption/efficienies will need to be focused.
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Post by glowplug on Aug 15, 2011 8:42:36 GMT -5
GB, it ain't about WI. We have vast, sparsely populated sections of USA west of the Mississippi. But those areas are also our most productive Bread Basket states.
I've heard all the yammering about biofuel "subsidies" I need. As the parent of a US soldier, I'm well aware of the military "subsidization" of world oil flow. We need more of our own energy by expanding the most efficient options and less raghead oil. The nasty not so secret of buying world oil is the "subsidy" of Islamic terrorism. Jimmy Carter's f-up in Iran has cost USA many lives as well as tax dollars.
As I've said, let the citiots have compressed air vehicles where it makes sense. Let them ride buses where it makes sense. High speed rail is a loser, impractical and expensive. Just as I pointed out that wind power failed to provide needed power in TX recently, this obsession with wind, solar, passenger rail, are unicorn fart dreams in best use of dollar application. Fortunately, WI dumped high speed rail between Milwaukee and Madison, dead in its (non-constructed) tracks. The Badger Bus currently serves what little need exists.
Having our govt. force folks into transportation systems they don't wish to ride is something out of the USSR, even on the east and left coasts.
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