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Post by looter on Aug 13, 2011 6:53:44 GMT -5
Does anybody have the exact mandate for 2012? The mandate rises every year. With the corn crop we have coming, its physically not going to work.
The 2012 mandate for just corn based ethanol = ? (Cellulosic is the rest of the mandate)
Obviously ethanol is gonna become a free market affair, and will only be available limited quantities in the corn states. Backlash is a coming thanks to the stupid mandate.
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Post by wctyilfarmer on Aug 13, 2011 7:07:51 GMT -5
I try not to worry to much about anything I have no control over. Hel I'm from So.Il our crop doesn't even count. JMO they need to discontinue the gov farm programs and let the farmer do what he does best. maybe discontinue the gov all together that would fix the debt. I can't really say what I want it would piz too many off. As db would say Were Screwed
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Post by beaner on Aug 13, 2011 7:14:20 GMT -5
The ethanol mandate rises to 15 billion gallons by 2015. Some of that is supposed to be cellulosic, but that will not happen because of lack of capability to produce it.
The federal ethanol mandate should be eliminated along with the 45 cent/gallon blender credit. Then ethanol can compete on an equal footing with other sectors for corn.
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Post by glowplug on Aug 13, 2011 7:38:08 GMT -5
beaner, your's is a recipe for even more dependence upon the world oil market. In case you haven't noticed......an Iran guy is now OPECker president.
The enviro-wackos have limited US abilities to produce our own oil (hardly in keeping with your "free" market ideas) so you'd artificially increase gas prices by with your cripple ethanol plans. Choose one or the other, beaner. Either we flat out drill baby drill or we make ethanol.
The answer to short corn supplies is elimination of yet another enviro-wacko program, the useless CRP that includes lots of non-HEL acres. Want more corn? We can grow more but we need more acres. And more acres would take land rents down as well.
Further, some of those HEL acres could be rotationally grazed if the US markets wouldn't be so fixated upon importing unsanitary beef from Turd world nations on the cheap. Really tired of paying citiot property owners for their own private CRP hunting preserves that grow weed seeds that get spread on my cropped acres.
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Post by looter on Aug 13, 2011 7:59:38 GMT -5
beaner, your's is a recipe for even more dependence upon the world oil market. In case you haven't noticed......an Iran guy is now OPECker president. The enviro-wackos have limited US abilities to produce our own oil (hardly in keeping with your "free" market ideas) so you'd artificially increase gas prices by with your cripple ethanol plans. Choose one or the other, beaner. Either we flat out drill baby drill or we make ethanol. The answer to short corn supplies is elimination of yet another enviro-wacko program, the useless CRP that includes lots of non-HEL acres. Want more corn? We can grow more but we need more acres. And more acres would take land rents down as well. Further, some of those HEL acres could be rotationally grazed if the US markets wouldn't be so fixated upon importing unsanitary beef from Turd world nations on the cheap. Really tired of paying citiot property owners for their own private CRP hunting preserves that grow weed seeds that get spread on my cropped acres. Why is the choice either drill baby drill or have ethanol subsidies? Is the American way of life non-negotiable? The thing you guys don't get is that the mandate is ethanol's biggest enemy. The 2012 ethanol mandate is so huge that its guaranteed to push to the price of ethanol 50 cents to a dollar above unleaded. Is that smart?
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Post by glowplug on Aug 13, 2011 8:41:50 GMT -5
Well looter, if you wish to change the "so-called American way of life" (whatever that is because Americans' lifestyles have changed a lot over my long lifetime) by forcing high priced fuel on us, you'd better have a well-armed neighborhood group on your side. High priced fuel will lead to a decreased food supply, rationed everything, and Mad Max. Some military vets on AAF will confirm that killing other men ain't a cakewalk. Kill or be killed is not where I want to see our nation go.
I have no desire to see my great nation turned into Turd World status. Especially when we abound in untapped multiple resources. Yeah, I'm into conservation. My property abounds in wildlife. I mostly no-till (changed up some of that this spring where there were no heat units, exceedingly wet soils needing a dry out, etc.) and prefer to keep my input costs down to bare bones. It's good business and I enjoy hunting too. I don't want the soils I make a living from, washing or blowing away. But farming runs on diesel. Transportation of goods runs on diesel. Trains, tugs-barges run on diesel. My quarrel with ethanol is.....it ain't diesel. But I'm not responsible for the total lack of leadership since the 1973 OPEKer oil embargo.
Glowplug
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Post by glowplug on Aug 13, 2011 8:51:46 GMT -5
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Post by glowplug on Aug 13, 2011 8:56:33 GMT -5
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Post by glowplug on Aug 13, 2011 9:02:53 GMT -5
hotair.com/archives/2011/08/12/canadian-oil-sands-and-america-part-3/The same geologic structures were made off limits by the envirowackos in our Western states. This is a contrived shortage. I'm not saying we should be wasteful of our resources, nor should we stop development of thorium power, geo-thermal, hydro, even solar where it cash flows. But to subsidize wind where it is a proven failure is just stupid. Glowplug
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Post by sillinoisfarmer on Aug 13, 2011 9:16:17 GMT -5
Looter is exactly correct on the mandate issue as it does not allow for changing marketing conditions. As the demand for ethanol goes up and the price of corn follows suite the consumer will be harder pressed. They do not follow logic and the blame will be placed on ethanol and the agriculture cartel that pushed it. There will be a huge public relations backlash that ultimately hurt ethanol production and drive the price of corn back down to break-even levels we had prior to the ethanol buildup.
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Bristol Hillbilly
Hired Hand
Sentinel aka "Bouncer"....Sitting by the door....
Posts: 215
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Post by Bristol Hillbilly on Aug 13, 2011 10:34:31 GMT -5
Isnt ethanol being used to replace mtbe's? If that is the case right now isn't ethanol the only legitimate or feasible substitute for mtbe (cancer causing stuff)? obviously I need more education on this subject to make a good decision either way.
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Bristol Hillbilly
Hired Hand
Sentinel aka "Bouncer"....Sitting by the door....
Posts: 215
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Post by Bristol Hillbilly on Aug 13, 2011 10:36:29 GMT -5
And if my questions are right, why would they back off the mandate? If they are wrong put it in laymens terms so I can understand ex. Drunkern Lodger Theory.
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Post by kwestfarms on Aug 13, 2011 16:00:28 GMT -5
Glow : WE can drill here until we are blue in the face !! Most of our energy is high cost energy , as most of the easily recovered oil has been already extracted. And any oil drilled here will have no affect on local gas prices. World companies , world prices!! There will never be a cheaper oil price nationally than the world oil price !!! John
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Post by looter on Aug 13, 2011 21:12:10 GMT -5
Well looter, if you wish to change the "so-called American way of life" (whatever that is because Americans' lifestyles have changed a lot over my long lifetime) by forcing high priced fuel on us, you'd better have a well-armed neighborhood group on your side. High priced fuel will lead to a decreased food supply, rationed everything, and Mad Max. Some military vets on AAF will confirm that killing other men ain't a cakewalk. Kill or be killed is not where I want to see our nation go. I have no desire to see my great nation turned into Turd World status. Especially when we abound in untapped multiple resources. Yeah, I'm into conservation. My property abounds in wildlife. I mostly no-till (changed up some of that this spring where there were no heat units, exceedingly wet soils needing a dry out, etc.) and prefer to keep my input costs down to bare bones. It's good business and I enjoy hunting too. I don't want the soils I make a living from, washing or blowing away. But farming runs on diesel. Transportation of goods runs on diesel. Trains, tugs-barges run on diesel. My quarrel with ethanol is.....it ain't diesel. But I'm not responsible for the total lack of leadership since the 1973 OPEKer oil embargo. Glowplug 1) Forcing expensive fuel on consumer? A mandate accomplishes exactly that. 2) Does expensive fuel create Mad Max? Well then its Mad Max in our future cuz there is no policy Americans can embrace that will prevent expensive fuel. Gasoline is Turkey is $11/gallon. Budapest is doing better than many places. Norway gas is $9/gallon. They enjoy high living standards. 3) Canada tar sand production stalled out at a dismal 2.5 mbpd years ago and despite billions upon billions in investment languished there. 4) Oil sands are very differant than oil shale and oil shale has no commonality whatsoever to shale oil. It's like a sandy loam vs a loamy sand. The shale oil in CO isn't getting developed because it has negative EROEI. Shale oil is not a resource. 5) The USA has more drilling rigs operating than the rest of the world combined. Resources in the USA are easier to tap than anywhere. Most of the drilling costs are subsidized in America to the point the taxpayer pays almost all the expense. 6) There is a world oil price. It can never work for a country to have anything except the world oil price. If oil is cheap here, we would export it. 7) The problem with the ethanol mandate is that it will destroy public support. Not that there is any. The public's backlash will ruin the industry.
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Post by looter on Aug 13, 2011 21:19:49 GMT -5
The thing about the ethanol mandate is this, the only time its relavant is the scenario that not even corn farmers want it. We have produced well in excess of the mandate since 2006. The mandate was irrelevant since 2006. When it is relevant, like in 2006, the price of ethanol is a lot more expensive than unleaded. This is as bad as it gets.
MTBE is still used in unleaded.
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