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Post by 48 on Sept 3, 2011 12:50:52 GMT -5
did: If you are way east C CO, you are in a very similar climate as me. On dryland I would never do skip row. I am a big believer in continuous dryland corn on corn as opposed to W-C-F. It takes 2 years to grow a W crop. Drilling W back into corn stalks won't work cuz the C has sucked the profile dry. But, with either C-C or W-C-F you have residue to shade the ground and minimize evaporation. You never strip till dryland cuz it will dry out as deep as the knife goes. You want to broadcast 46-0-0 or side dress NH3 with a JD2510 coulter injection rig. On dryland corn in your and my area at low populations, you want one stalk and one ear...no tillers/suckers and no secondary ears. You want a short corn with the highest drought rating. Pioneer has recommended the 35F40 family forever, but it's too tall. If you plant 34F97 early it will not get too tall. But, their new drought Aqua corn 1151 is a better choice. Even better is GH 8708 Artesian drought corn and 8864. The 8708 double ears but the secondary ear puts grain on instead of being cannibalized to the primary ear like 2404 used to do. The other problem with skip row is no canopy for weed control. That wasn't a big problem with RR corn til we started getting glyphosate resistant Palmer amaranth, horseweed/marestail, and KOCHIA.
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Post by looter on Sept 3, 2011 16:21:47 GMT -5
I'm in a different world than an "I" state, being a western irrigater, but I'll share my observations . We've planted anywhere from 9K on skip-row dryland to 72K on our best irrigated (just to see if we could do it). As far as pushing populations goes, there's no set answer. EVERY hybrid responds differently under the same in-row stress, so finding the right hybrids is KEY to pushing pop's. Pushing pop with a number that's been good to you for years may not be the best thing to do to that number. For example: I LOVE Pioneer B54, it just plain works for me. Two years ago we ran a field at 40K, with some strips of 45K with two different hybrids, B54 being one of them. The B54 showed a little over 5 bushel increase, while the other hybrid (Pioneer F97) was flat compared to the 40K. The F97 had hit a yield limiting factor other than population while the B54 pushed on up a little bit. Last year, we ran that same field at 50K flat with Pioneer F40 as our main hybrid. We had a strip in the field that we planted at 72K that yielded exactly the same as the 50K. In fact, we weighed the 50K F40 in about 6 spots through the field (different soils) and it was ALWAYS the same yield. We'd hit some sort of yield limiting factor again. It was NOT fertility or water (irrigated), my guess is sunlight, but I'm not the greatest corn growing guy in the room. In this particular field, we have our test plot where we'll test all companies who care to participate. It's amazing to see how the different hybrid's handle the exact same environment so differently when they're right next to each other, sometimes. Seeing how some legitimately "good" hybrids fall apart under high population stress really makes me a believer that the population debate can NOT be waged on broad terms. It MUST be on a hybrid by hybrid basis, more-so as you climb the population curve. We've upped our pop's the last several years because we'd plateau'd yields previously. We'd upped fertility with no response, so we upped plants. Now we've upped pop's and plateau'd again. What's the next step? Good question My recommendation to anyone asking the population question would be to maximize per-plant production at your current planting rate before bumping plants. (Not like I'm telling any of you guys anything you didn't know ) Thanks for listening to my li'l diatribe. What general observations have you seen on skip-row? More drought/heat tolerant? More or less yield on wet years?
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Post by looter on Sept 3, 2011 16:33:52 GMT -5
Years ago I stumbled around South Africa and noticed they plant corn in 10' wide rows in their uber dry areas. The wetter the area, the thicker they plant and the narrower the rows. They said the most profitable areas to grow corn was in the dry areas. 3 years out of ten they had no harvest. 4 years out of ten they made decent money, and three years in ten were spectacular lottey winners.
How they did it was to plant prolific hybrids at super low pops (5K) and in wide rows. The purpose of the wide rows was to;
1) Allow cooler night air to drop lower into canopy.
2) Concentrate fertilizer
3) Avoid luxurious consumption of water by small plants. It prevents the roots from needlessly tapping the center of the row until the plants need it.
I've done lots of testing on this in SD the past decade. 60" row corn has a 30% yield advantage over 30" corn most years. Weeds aren't an issue in either row spacing.
Flex ear corn can be over-rated in low plant populations on wet years. Seldom does it help in my experiance. Give me 16 around, small cob, and plenty of them any day.
Most hybrids in my experiance produce max yields between 5 and 7 bushel per thousand. Nearly all hybrids hemorrage yield below 4 bushel per thousand. Most hybrids lose yield when getting north of 8 bushel per 1000.
My favorite product doesn't lose yield until you take it to 13 bushel per thousand.
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Post by didsomeonesaydonut on Sept 4, 2011 0:15:06 GMT -5
48: I've been toying with the idea of skip row coc, and this is the first year I've done it, so far so good I'm with you on most of your observations regarding rotation limitations, strip-till dryland is a HUGE no-no, and F97 is awesome wherever you put it I've been impressed with Pioneer's 1498 so far this year, we'll see how it picks. Looter: My observations on skip row is that it's a drought mitigation tool. It's not for hitting home-run yields, but, rather, for hitting a good average. I've been able to raise corn while fields around me burn up. During a wet year, you'll get a good, solid yield, but won't be quite as good as a solid 30" planting. The difference between 50-70 bushel average most every year vs a really good shot at nothing is a no-brainer for me. Last year our skip row averaged close to 90 across all our acres, while a lot of the 30" close to me went 100. This year, my coc skip row LOOKS like it'll do 70, my corn after wheat skip LOOKS close to 85, while 30" corn after wheat looks like it might do 50. The combine will tell the truth, though, I may be off Also, all skip row corn is not created equal. I'm a believer in the plant 2, skip 2 system. Planting 2 rows allows the plants to create a bit of their own micro-climate to help alleviate the heat of the day, and the skip 2 gives you a good reserve of moisture for the plants to continue to grow toward and use. I'd LIKE for plant 1 skip 1 to work, just for uniformity of residue after harvest, but p1s1 just doesn't seem to take the heat as well (see micro-climate). I'm hoping that this p2s2 coc keeps working, just to help even out the trash in the fields if nothing else.
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Post by jabber1 on Sept 4, 2011 8:44:18 GMT -5
On that ear flex thing- all corn has some flex. Some will also more easily put on a second ear if conditions allow. When comparing hybrids we can choose a more or less flexible ear size- we don't have a will or won't flex ear size.
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mcupps
Hired Hand
HELLOOO NURSE!!!!!!!
Posts: 129
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Post by mcupps on Sept 4, 2011 9:48:49 GMT -5
Looter, What part of south dakota are you in. I saw a lot of 60 inch corn in the parmely (spelling) norris area. I think thats where the farm is that has all the videos on youtube of the r72s and 60 inch corn.
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mcupps
Hired Hand
HELLOOO NURSE!!!!!!!
Posts: 129
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Post by mcupps on Sept 4, 2011 9:52:33 GMT -5
48, theres some multi year reaseach somewhere that shows skip row corn has no yield advantage of true 60 inch corn.
I think it goes back to good old fashion iowa genetics and the fact that most modern corn plants love to have a corn plant on both sides of them (in the row), so they can figure out how to turn there leaves and get some good early season "comeptition growth" height
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Post by didsomeonesaydonut on Sept 4, 2011 10:03:53 GMT -5
Good observation, mccups. I was talking about how well F40 works for us, "here". Last year was an exceptionally wet year for us. Where F40 was 11K on 30", it tillered like crazy and got itself into all sorts of ugliness because it sensed no competition planted that thinly. The F40 on skip row, where 11K becomes 22K down the row, behaved like it normally does.
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Post by looter on Sept 5, 2011 7:49:25 GMT -5
Looter, What part of south dakota are you in. I saw a lot of 60 inch corn in the parmely (spelling) norris area. I think thats where the farm is that has all the videos on youtube of the r72s and 60 inch corn. Ya, there is a lot of 60" corn in that area. I was at the guys place who posted the videos last week. He is a smart Indian who farms circles around his neighbors. His corn will ave over 100 bu/ac this year, and nothing around it will come close. Tomorow I will be in the Wall area looking at corn.
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mcupps
Hired Hand
HELLOOO NURSE!!!!!!!
Posts: 129
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Post by mcupps on Sept 6, 2011 14:13:53 GMT -5
I like to eat across the street from Wall Drug. Thats a busy little town in the summer. Im sure it settles down in the fall though
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