Hi pop corn vs. low pop corn ?

[7150]

There are surely several guys out there that have had the opportunity to compare 35k corn pops with 30k corn pops. Is the high population stuff paying consistently ?

[Jefe™©]

It always does with a determinate ear. Maybe not so much if the ear is considered a flex.

[acfarmer]

Jul 19, 2011 16:28:30 GMT -5 Jefe™© said:

It always does with a determinate ear. Maybe not so much if the ear is considered a flex.

Sad thing is there are less and less varieties that have a flex ear.

[7150]

That's what concerns me. The seed companies are going to remove the flex-ear hybrids from our toolbox. Things don't always go the way I plan in my fields. It's really nice to know I have an ear that can adjust if it has room.

[Bristol Hillbilly]

Cam, This is the first year I have planted over 30k. One field I planted at 35k and all the rest at 32500 except for one Agrigold# that has flex. I am really looking forward to seeing if there is much difference.

[pldairy]

we ran a pop of 38Kthis year because we were so late it looks good so far execpt the dryer ground ,as today it rolled

[clayknob]

We keep pushing higher (reluctantly)....tiled dark ground 38 final stand and still filling to tip. On the light stuff 32-34 final, the really "poor" stuff doesn't amount to much but the field average has been decent. Mostly Agrigold, and a couple Dekalb numbers. I'm not afraid of pushing the Agrigold, but the Dekalb gets touchy in a hurry. Have planted as high as 44k before, late spring in bottom ground....it did well.

[didsomeonesaydonut]

I'm in a different world than an "I" state, being a western irrigater, but I'll share my observations . We've planted anywhere from 9K on skip-row dryland to 72K on our best irrigated (just to see if we could do it). As far as pushing populations goes, there's no set answer. EVERY hybrid responds differently under the same in-row stress, so finding the right hybrids is KEY to pushing pop's. Pushing pop with a number that's been good to you for years may not be the best thing to do to that number.

For example: I LOVE Pioneer B54, it just plain works for me. Two years ago we ran a field at 40K, with some strips of 45K with two different hybrids, B54 being one of them. The B54 showed a little over 5 bushel increase, while the other hybrid (Pioneer F97) was flat compared to the 40K. The F97 had hit a yield limiting factor other than population while the B54 pushed on up a little bit.

Last year, we ran that same field at 50K flat with Pioneer F40 as our main hybrid. We had a strip in the field that we planted at 72K that yielded exactly the same as the 50K. In fact, we weighed the 50K F40 in about 6 spots through the field (different soils) and it was ALWAYS the same yield. We'd hit some sort of yield limiting factor again. It was NOT fertility or water (irrigated), my guess is sunlight, but I'm not the greatest corn growing guy in the room.

In this particular field, we have our test plot where we'll test all companies who care to participate. It's amazing to see how the different hybrid's handle the exact same environment so differently when they're right next to each other, sometimes. Seeing how some legitimately "good" hybrids fall apart under high population stress really makes me a believer that the population debate can NOT be waged on broad terms. It MUST be on a hybrid by hybrid basis, more-so as you climb the population curve.

We've upped our pop's the last several years because we'd plateau'd yields previously. We'd upped fertility with no response, so we upped plants. Now we've upped pop's and plateau'd again. What's the next step? Good question My recommendation to anyone asking the population question would be to maximize per-plant production at your current planting rate before bumping plants. (Not like I'm telling any of you guys anything you didn't know ) Thanks for listening to my li'l diatribe.

[mcupps]

Whats your top end limit now with f40. Why you like f40 on irrigated ground?

[didsomeonesaydonut]

The best I got F40 to do was 276. We'd had some first-hand experience with F40 before we did what we did and were comfortable with it's overall stability as a product. The thinking behind the F40 was that it's a semi-determined ear that is very hard to tip back. We wanted to force the field to go 300 (16 girth x 36 length * 50K / 90K gives you 320 bushel corn), and that seemed like the most sure-fire way of making it happen. We were also in uncharted waters (for us, I'm sure others have been there) of water management. F40 is a VERY drought resistant corn, so that gave us a bit of an insurance policy from the water side of things.

When I said that 276 is the best we got F40 to do on that field that year, what I should also add is that the lowest it did was 274. We'd hit another yield limiting factor that wasn't (apparently) related to soil type. Again, I think that sunlight was it. Upright leaves seem to work better on top end yield, and F40 isn't exactly the most upright of leaves. We knew that going into that little episode, but, like I said, we were trying to force the issue. I wasn't displeased with F40, it did all it could do, but we did learn that for top end yields, it'll be really hard pressed to get us there. We still plant a LOT of F40, it's a very versatile corn for our area, and on some of our short water pivots, it's one of the best options.

Hope that answers your question

[48]

Every part of the country is different. The Corn Belt plants 36,000. If we planted that heavy, it would all go down. We plant 32,000 irrigated and 14-16,000 dryland out here in the desert. You always want a variety that flexes. Dekalb still lists Flex in their catalog. For Pioneer, you can go to the Growing Point website to get it. Ditto Golden Harvest website.

[mcupps]

Sept 1, 2011 8:34:45 GMT -5 didsomeonesaydonut said:

The best I got F40 to do was 276. We'd had some first-hand experience with F40 before we did what we did and were comfortable with it's overall stability as a product. The thinking behind the F40 was that it's a semi-determined ear that is very hard to tip back. We wanted to force the field to go 300 (16 girth x 36 length * 50K / 90K gives you 320 bushel corn), and that seemed like the most sure-fire way of making it happen. We were also in uncharted waters (for us, I'm sure others have been there) of water management. F40 is a VERY drought resistant corn, so that gave us a bit of an insurance policy from the water side of things.

When I said that 276 is the best we got F40 to do on that field that year, what I should also add is that the lowest it did was 274. We'd hit another yield limiting factor that wasn't (apparently) related to soil type. Again, I think that sunlight was it. Upright leaves seem to work better on top end yield, and F40 isn't exactly the most upright of leaves. We knew that going into that little episode, but, like I said, we were trying to force the issue. I wasn't displeased with F40, it did all it could do, but we did learn that for top end yields, it'll be really hard pressed to get us there. We still plant a LOT of F40, it's a very versatile corn for our area, and on some of our short water pivots, it's one of the best options.

Hope that answers your question

People have tryed that with f40 around here. And a lot of guys are planting it up around 35k on dryland around here and in south eastern kansas. Its amazing at growing that 30 by 16 ear and I wish all my corn was f40 this year but, Is it more drought tolerant and use less water at 35k than, lets say, a hybrids planted at 20k with a 18 by 45 ear with some kernal depth?

I just have a hard time pushing population on ground that didn't make an ear the year before. I also have a hard time knowing my top potential on a PERFECT year is under 100 bu, which is what a guy is setting himself up for when he plants f40 at 16-20k

[48]

When you say F40, I assume you mean 35F40...and F44 etc. There's nothing wrong with 270+ yields. lol. The problem with F40 is it's too tall. It's a silage corn. 34F97 has a 8 drought rating, and it's not so tall. But, 34F97 has to have heat units, or it will be down in the 210-220 range.

[didsomeonesaydonut]

You are correct,, 48, I do mean 35F40, I'm just too lazy to type it We plant some F97 also, it's always been good to us, even if it is a little uglier than some of the other corns. "Here" I don't notice F40 being overly tall, and the F97 usually is the taller of the two, I don't know what would account for the difference in height that you and I are seeing. And by the way, you don't know what "desert" is if you're planting 14-16K dryland, we only plant 11K and that's too much sometimes

Please don't confuse me with anyone who knows everything about corn, but as to the water use of F40 @ 35K vs Hybrid X planted @ 20K: vegetation takes water. Period. Every leaf and every inch of stalk in a living corn plant has water in it. If water is your limiting factor, plant fewer plants with bigger ears on them. Also think about different planting strategies, skip row is a VERY effective drought mitigation tool when applied correctly. Feel free to email me if you want to go over skip row practices. Addy should be in profile.

[ses]

I wish Looter would step in here . He has been doing some field trials on skip row and lower populations in dryer climes. He's real interesting to talk to about it. He said in South Africa the plant 5,000 in 10 ft. spacing rows. poor years yield in the thirties, good years 90.

Are out there Looter. Might have to jack his ass up.